On February 14, the State Duma held parliamentary hearings “Patriotic Education of Russian Citizens: The Immortal Regiment”. MPs State Duma, co-chairs of the All-Russian social movement The Immortal Regiment of Russia and representatives of other public organizations discussed the importance patriotic education for the citizens of the country!
At the hearings, the co-chairman of the Immortal Regiment of Russia movement presented the report “Documentary Basis of the People’s Project “Establishing the Fates of the Missing Defenders of the Fatherland”, within the framework of which studies were carried out on the decline in the population of the USSR in 1941-45. He changed the idea of the scale of the losses of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War.
According to declassified According to the State Planning Committee of the USSR, losses Soviet Union
in World War II are 41 million 979 thousand, not 27 million as previously thought. That's almost one-third of the current population. Russian Federation. Behind this terrible figure are our fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers. Those who gave their lives for our future. (Paphos! Applause turning into an ovation!)
First, the declassified data of the Ministry of Defense appeared, then the declassified data of the long-abolished State Planning Commission became.
What was it?
Where is this nonsense from?
What does it have to do with patriotic education?
That's what it is and what's going on with the "Immortal Regiment" - I'll tell you briefly.
First, about losses.
The main thing is that there were no “declassified data on losses”. That is, it was not at all.
It’s just that someone Igor Ivanovich Ivlev, the creator and moderator of the soldier.ru website, decided to raise the topic of “monstrous losses” again and started juggling numbers, oh, calculations (!). He's not the first. There were many rascals who did the same. The most odious and ignorant is Boris Sokolov, who at one time counted 60 million.
So, the basic postulates of calculations.
The decline in the population of the USSR in 1941-1945. Those who have eyes will see. If you take a calculator, let it count.
I. By 1941, there are only 2 categories of persons included in the calculations:
1. Civilians included in the document of the State Planning Committee of the USSR - 199.920.100 hours (scan).
2. Servicemen of the USSR Armed Forces, taken into account in the publication of M.V. Zakharov, document of the RGVA (NKVD troops) - 5.082.305 hours (scan).
3. Total - 205.002.405 hours
What can be said here? The author is either a fool or a swindler. There are many reports from the State Planning Committee indicating the population in 1941. And all according to the documents, the scans of which are on the internet. All data is calculated, because there was no census, and the population changed a lot. Figures appear from 192 to 199 million.
The author simply grabbed the largest figure and rushes with it.
But there are also calculation methods. There is a census for 1939 - 170.5 million citizens. There is a population of the territories annexed before the war - 22.5 million people.
Total: 193 million + natural increase. It was in this way that the most reliable figure was obtained - 196 million.
Now - what is the stupidity of the author. The author, as befits an idiot, decided that the army, it is not part of the population, but above it. And he simply added to the largest calculated figure, having received 205 million.
And at the same time, he “received” a fourfold (!) Increase in natural growth in prewar years. Like, they began to give birth more often, and only triplets !!!
We go further:
II. By 1945, there are 3 categories of persons included in the calculations:
3. Number civilian population on 01.07.45 - 151.165.200 hours together with surviving children under the age of 4 years 11.859.776 hours (see paragraph 9 below and documents of the State Planning Committee of the USSR). Without civilian children born in the war, by 01.07.45 - 139.305.424 h.
4. The strength of the USSR Armed Forces on the same date - 12.839.800 hours (documents of TsAMO RF).
5. Number of displaced persons - people who were not part of the civilian population at the time of submission of calculations territorial administrations Gosplan and not part of the USSR Armed Forces - 5.804.524 hours (GARF documents in the publication of V.N. Zemskov).
6. Total - 169.809.524 hours (151.165.200 + 12.839.800 + 5.804.524).
And here the author considers the army separately !!! So what can still not an idiot, but a swindler?
The population of the USSR at the end of the war was 170 million. If we add, according to the author's method, the army, then we, lo and behold, will get 183 million and the losses will be much less than the official ones !!!
Profit! What miracles can be done by juggling with initially correct numbers.
III. Born in 1941-1945 children and overall mortality:
7. Children were born in 4 years - 17.619.776 hours (scans 1 and 2).
8. Died - 5.760.000 hours (scans 1, 2, 3).
9. Children under 4 years of age survived by 01.07.45 - 11.859.776 hours (17.619.776 - 5.760.000).
10. In total, citizens of the USSR died in 4 years (the level of "natural" mortality in 1941, multiplied by 4 years) - 10.833.240 hours, incl. 5.760.000 children (scans 1, 2, 3).
IV. The number of those who survived the war who lived by 06/22/41:
11. By 07/01/45, those who were alive on 06/22/41 remained - 157.949.748 hours (169.809.524 - 17.619.776 + 5.760.000).
Anyone who goes to the site and looks at the scans will suddenly find that these are not documents, but Ivlev's calculations! This is understandable, since keeping records of the birth rate during the war was difficult, especially considering that up to a third of the population was under occupation.
But the author boldly considers the birth rate by pre-war standards! And in this way, with a stroke of the pen, he "killed" from 3 to 4 million innocent children.
About natural mortality. We look at his "scans" and see that these are again the author's calculations. The author boldly extrapolates pre-war mortality to the war years and unoccupied territories to occupied ones! Yes, and applying all this to an overestimated population. It's so convenient - immediately the natural increase grows, and with it the losses that the author needs anyway. Here the author again wins back several million.
And, of course, the author does not take into account such nuances as the transfer of the Bialystok region with the population to Poland after the war.
Attention!We have already found 14-16 million people of defamatory losses.
That is, there are no 42 million. There are real losses of 27 million and juggling with numbers in order to overestimate these losses.
Now let's move on to the Immortal Regiment. I have already informed the leadership of this organization that they are throwing in fraudulent, anti-Soviet figures, covering them up with the authority of their organization. But they prefer to believe jugglers.
Then they wonder:
But what was our surprise when we learned that now a number of opposition publications are starting to use this information for their own purposes, as well as manipulate it, generalize it and thus try to harm our state,” Nikolay Zemtsov said at a press conference.
What happens to this action?
Everything seemed to be fine two years ago.
But now the prosecutor (now a deputy) Poklonskaya arranges a vile trick by going to the action with the icon of the king-rag, while telling some kind of fairy tale for the mentally mournful. And the leadership of the "Immortal Regiment" is silent.
An emblem is proposed, where the Soviet symbols are replaced by George the Victorious with a cross on a spear. How so? The victory in the Great Patriotic War was won not by the Orthodox army over the filthy Germans, but by the Soviet multinational and multi-confessional (and in the mass and atheistic) people. But the leadership of the "Immortal Regiment" - accepts the emblem.
In Russian Orthodox Church suggested that the organizers of the Immortal Regiment movement allow the procession participants to honor the memory of heroes not only of the Great Patriotic War(WWII), but also other wars. For example, the First World War and the Patriotic War of 1812. The head of the department for work with public organizations Synodal Department for Church Relations with Society and Mass Media Dmitry Roshchin. And the leadership of the Immortal Regiment agrees.
Initially, the "Immortal Regiment" was created by liberals as an act of oblivion. It was forbidden to use Soviet symbols, and they tried to make it not a holiday, but a day of mourning. I already wrote about it.
Thanks to the position of our fellow citizens, the action was pulled out from under the liberals and made a day of triumph for the victorious people.
But the action immediately began to crush the government. Government officials diligently direct it in the "right" direction. In anti-Soviet. Our major government officials have such a property as King Midas. But for him, everything that he did not touch turned into gold, and for government officials - into shit.
And so they reached out to the "Immortal Regiment" and diligently disfigure this action, again turning it into an action of oblivion.
I do not call not to go to this action. Comrades, just going to it, remember that it depends on you what this action will be. It will be a procession of the descendants of Soviet victorious soldiers. winners in Greatest War who broke the back of fascism and Nazism. And will the descendants remember who fought, for what and under whose command.
Or it will be a jingoistic procession with icons in honor of all the victories under the auspices of the king-rag.
All in your hands. And you have the power to wrest the action from the clutches of officials and leave it to the people.
February 18th, 2017 01:38 am
On February 14, the State Duma held parliamentary hearings “Patriotic Education of Russian Citizens: The Immortal Regiment”. The event was organized by the State Duma Committee on Education and Science together with the Defense Committee and the Labor Committee, social policy and Veterans Affairs.
The official format of the event, it would seem, should exclude unreliable or controversial assessments of Russia's military past - if such an event was really held, and if such assessments were made within the walls of the Duma.
From the information that can be found on the Internet, it follows that something strange happened: with reference to the “declassified data of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation”, it was said from the rostrum:
"... the losses of the Soviet Union in World War II amount to 41 million 979 thousand, and not 27 million, as previously thought."
“This is almost one third of the modern population of the Russian Federation. Behind this terrible figure are our fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers. Those who gave their lives for our future. And, perhaps, the biggest betrayal is to forget their names, their feat, their heroism, which have developed into our common great Victory.
"The general decline in the population of the USSR 1941-45. - more than 52 million 812 thousand people. Of these, irretrievable losses as a result of the action of war factors - more than 19 million military personnel and about 23 million civilians. The total natural mortality of military personnel and the civilian population during this period could have amounted to more than 10 million 833 thousand people (including 5 million 760 thousand - dead children under the age of four). The irretrievable losses of the population of the USSR as a result of the action of war factors amounted to almost 42 million people.
Now this information is rapidly spreading on the Internet, and people naturally wonder: “what was that?”
The first doubt that arose in my mind concerned the reference to the Russian Ministry of Defense. I remember other figures named on November 13, 2015 by Vladimir Popov, head of the Russian Ministry of Defense department for perpetuating the memory of those who died defending the Fatherland: 6.329 million servicemen killed and died from wounds, 555 thousand who died from diseases, who died as a result of accidents, who were sentenced to death (according to reports from the troops, medical institutions, military tribunals), 4.559 million captured (died in captivity, according to the calculations of the Krivosheev group, 1.784 million) and missing and 500 thousand called up for mobilization, but not enlisted in the lists of troops.
So the number is irrevocable lost USSR military personnel could be from 8 668 000 (taking into account those who died in captivity and minus those who did not arrive on mobilization) up to 11 943 000 Human.
But not 19 million.
Such a figure was not called by the Ministry of Defense. The military department did not conduct a calculation of civilian losses at all, and could not come up with an estimate of “more than 52 million”.
Maybe one of the colleagues was at this meeting in the State Duma and can at least give the name of the speaker? Every year, thousands of events are held there and tens of thousands of reports are read. You can’t remember every speaker, you can’t follow every figure. Judging by the text of the sensational message, the speaker wished to remain anonymous.
What does the sum of 19 million lost military personnel mean? According to the estimates of the Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences Gennady Osipov, about 27 million people were direct participants in the war from the Soviet side. After the end of the war, there were about 13 million people in the Soviet Army.
27 - 19 = 8. So, Soviet army falsified its winning numbers? Does this mean that only 6 million of those drafted into the army survived?
Does this correspond to the number of people registered as war veterans?
Or maybe you should look for other counterfeiters? Perhaps the information posted on the network is incorrect. Or the information given in the report. Some scandalous assessments of the losses of the USSR in the Second World War are associated with the name
They suffered it with misrepresentation: instead of the original "Gosplan declassified data" (also stupidity) -> "The Ministry of Defense declassified the data" -> "The Ministry of Defense recognized the fact."
As a trolling, this may be good, but the sad thing here is that people are so easily led - and begin to either earnestly believe or just as earnestly disbelieve, instead of just checking the facts. Namely, it is worth paying attention to the sources in the article. They are not there:
===
(a) "According to the declassified data of the State Planning Committee of the USSR"
(b) "The given information is confirmed by a huge number of original documents, authoritative publications and testimonies. All of them are a severe embodiment of the deep pain of our people, who suffered incredible losses and achieved victory over a cruel enemy."
===
You can check anything from these "source links". Me not. I am even surprised that Gosplan had anything to do with such statistics, because Gosplan was not a source, but only a consumer of statistics. The source was Goskomstat.
And other "a huge number of original documents, authoritative publications and testimonies" - what is it? I know the most authoritative source - the work of the State Statistics Committee demographers Andreev, Darsky Kharkov 1990 and 1993 on knocking out demography in the USSR (). This source just relied on all available demographic data, original documents, etc. Here is the result from there:
===
(1, p. 77) "The total human losses of the population of the USSR as a result of the Great Patriotic War, estimated by the demographic balance method, amount to approximately 26.6 million people."
===
Also in the "quote from the report" there is an operation with concepts:
* Total population loss 52.812 million
* irretrievable losses as a result of the factors of war (separately military personnel 19 million and separately population 23 million)
* Total natural mortality of military personnel and civilians 10.833 million
* Irretrievable losses of the population of the USSR as a result of the factors of war 42 million
How one gets from the other is not explained, because it is not at all a fact that these sets are correctly calculated, that they are about the same thing, and that they can generally be subtracted and added. If from one work (Krivosheev) we take inflated losses of civilians (my opinion: Krivosheev adjusted the losses of the army so that they did not look much higher than German ones), and from another work, inflated losses for the army (the maximum estimate, more adequately I came across ~ 14-16 million ) and add them up - it turns out that in both initial sources they relied on 27 million total losses, and after such an incorrect addition, 42 million came out.
What can be concluded from this? For example, I believe that the authors of the text are either not aware of the topic and do not know how to work with sets - to add and subtract them (and therefore they are conscientiously mistaken), or they are in the know (and then they deliberately lie).
I think too well about people and I think that they deliberately lie (at least the author of the article on the site) - in order to troll. But I'm afraid I'm wrong here, and the inability to compare, add and subtract is the main reason for such shock content.
===
Links:
(1) http://demoscope.ru/weekly/knigi/naselenie/naselenie_1922-1991.html
E.M. Andreev, L.E. Darsky, T.L. Kharkov
Population of the Soviet Union: 1922-1991
M., Nauka, 1993, 143 pages
Scan: http://demoscope.ru/weekly/knigi/naselenie/naselenie_1922-1991.pdf
(2) http://nationalproject.rf/news/201702-246/
People's project "Establishing the fate of the missing defenders of the Fatherland"
15 February 2017 (author not specified)
Parliamentary Hearings “Patriotic Education… “Immortal Regiment”
On February 14, the State Duma held parliamentary hearings “Patriotic Education of Russian Citizens: The Immortal Regiment”. Deputies of the State Duma, co-chairs of the All-Russian public movement "Immortal Regiment of Russia" and representatives of other public organizations discussed the importance of patriotic education for the citizens of the country.
(photo: Parliamentary hearings "Patriotic education ... "Immortal Regiment" - see the link)
The event was organized by the State Duma Committee on Education and Science together with the Committee on Defense and the Committee on Labor, Social Policy and Veterans Affairs.
Deputies of the State Duma, members of the Federation Council, representatives of legislative and supreme executive bodies of state power of the subjects of the Russian Federation, the Ministry of Education and Science of the Russian Federation, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation, public associations, organizations of foreign compatriots took part in the parliamentary hearings .
...
Formula: every fourth
At the hearings, the co-chairman of the Immortal Regiment of Russia movement presented the report “Documentary basis of the People’s Project “Establishing the Fates of the Missing Defenders of the Fatherland”, within the framework of which studies were carried out on the decline in the population of the USSR in 1941-45. He changed the idea of the scale of the losses of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War.
According to declassified data of the State Planning Committee of the USSR, the losses of the Soviet Union in World War II amount to 41 million 979 thousand, and not 27 million, as previously thought. This is almost one third of the modern population of the Russian Federation. Behind this terrible figure are our fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers. Those who gave their lives for our future. And, perhaps, the biggest betrayal is to forget their names, their feat, their heroism, which have developed into our common great Victory.
About losses in the Second World War and Immortal regiment
On February 14, the State Duma held parliamentary hearings “Patriotic Education of Russian Citizens: The Immortal Regiment”. Deputies of the State Duma, co-chairs of the All-Russian public movement "Immortal Regiment of Russia" and representatives of other public organizations discussed the importance of patriotic education for the citizens of the country!
At the hearings, the co-chairman of the Immortal Regiment of Russia movement presented the report “Documentary Basis of the People’s Project “Establishing the Fates of the Missing Defenders of the Fatherland”, within the framework of which studies were carried out on the decline in the population of the USSR in 1941-45. He changed the idea of the scale of the losses of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War.
According to the declassified data of the State Planning Committee of the USSR, the losses of the Soviet Union in World War II amount to 41 million 979 thousand, and not 27 million, as previously thought. This is almost one third of the modern population of the Russian Federation. Behind this terrible figure are our fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers. Those who gave their lives for our future. (Paphos! Applause turning into an ovation!)
First, the declassified data of the Ministry of Defense appeared, then the declassified data of the long-abolished State Planning Commission became.
What was it?
Where is this nonsense from?
What does it have to do with patriotic education?
That's what it is and what's going on with the "Immortal Regiment" - I'll tell you briefly.
First, let's talk about losses.
The main thing is that there were no “declassified data on losses”. That is, it was not at all.
It’s just that someone Igor Ivanovich Ivlev, the creator and moderator of the soldier.ru website, decided to raise the topic of “monstrous losses” again and started juggling numbers, oh, calculations (!). He's not the first. There were many rascals who did the same. The most odious and ignorant is Boris Sokolov, who at one time counted 60 million.
So, the basic postulates of calculations.
The decline in the population of the USSR in 1941-1945. Those who have eyes will see. If you take a calculator, let it count.
I. By 1941, there are only 2 categories of persons included in the calculations:
1. Civilians included in the document of the State Planning Committee of the USSR - 199.920.100 hours (scan).
2. Servicemen of the USSR Armed Forces, taken into account in the publication of M.V. Zakharov, document of the RGVA (NKVD troops) - 5.082.305 hours (scan).
3. Total - 205.002.405 hours
What can be said here? The author is either a fool or a swindler. There are many reports from the State Planning Committee indicating the population in 1941. And all according to the documents, the scans of which are on the internet. All data are calculated, because there was no census, and the population changed a lot. Figures appear from 192 to 199 million.
But there are also calculation methods. There is a census for 1939 - 170.5 million citizens. There is a population of territories annexed before the war - 22.5 million people.
Total: 193 million + natural increase. It was in this way that the most reliable figure was obtained - 196 million.
Now - what is the stupidity of the author. The author, as befits an idiot, decided that the army, it is not part of the population, but above it. And he simply added to the largest calculated figure, having received 205 million.
And at the same time, he "received" a fourfold (!) Increase in natural growth in the prewar years. Like, they began to give birth more often, and only triplets !!!
II. By 1945, there are 3 categories of persons included in the calculations:
3. The number of civilians as of 01.07.45 - 151.165.200 hours, together with surviving children under the age of 4 years 11.859.776 hours (see paragraph 9 below and documents of the State Planning Committee of the USSR). Without civilian children born in the war, by 01.07.45 - 139.305.424 h.
4. The strength of the USSR Armed Forces on the same date - 12.839.800 hours (documents of TsAMO RF).
5. The number of displaced persons - people who were not part of the civilian population at the time of the submission of calculations by the territorial departments of the State Planning Commission and were not part of the USSR Armed Forces - 5.804.524 hours (SARF documents in the publication of V.N. Zemskov).
6. Total - 169.809.524 hours (151.165.200 + 12.839.800 + 5.804.524).
The population of the USSR at the end of the war was 170 million. If we add, according to the author's method, the army, then we, lo and behold, will get 183 million and the losses will be much less than the official ones !!!
Profit! What miracles can be done by juggling with initially correct numbers.
III. Born in 1941-1945 children and overall mortality:
7. Children were born in 4 years - 17.619.776 hours (scans 1 and 2).
8. Died - 5.760.000 hours (scans 1, 2, 3).
9. Children under 4 years of age survived by 01.07.45 - 11.859.776 hours (17.619.776 - 5.760.000).
10. In total, citizens of the USSR died in 4 years (the level of "natural" mortality in 1941, multiplied by 4 years) - 10.833.240 hours, incl. 5.760.000 children (scans 1, 2, 3).
IV. The number of those who survived the war who lived by 06/22/41:
11. By 07/01/45, those who were alive on 06/22/41 remained - 157.949.748 hours (169.809.524 - 17.619.776 + 5.760.000).
Anyone who goes to the site and looks at the scans will suddenly find that these are not documents, but Ivlev's calculations! This is understandable, since keeping records of the birth rate during the war was difficult, especially considering that up to a third of the population was under occupation.
About natural mortality. We look at his "scans" and see that these are again the author's calculations. The author boldly extrapolates pre-war mortality to the war years and unoccupied territories to occupied ones! Yes, and applying all this to an overestimated population. It's so convenient - immediately the natural increase grows, and with it the losses that the author needs anyway. Here the author again wins back several million.
And, of course, the author does not take into account such nuances as the transfer of the Bialystok region with the population to Poland after the war.
Attention! We have already found 14-16 million people of defamatory losses.
That is, there are no 42 million. There are real losses of 27 million and juggling with numbers in order to overestimate these losses.
Now let's move on to the Immortal Regiment. I have already informed the leadership of this organization that they are throwing in fraudulent, anti-Soviet figures, covering them up with the authority of their organization. But they prefer to believe jugglers.
Then they wonder:
But what was our surprise when we learned that now a number of opposition publications are starting to use this information for their own purposes, as well as manipulate it, generalize it and thus try to harm our state,” said Nikolai Zemtsov at a press conference.
What happens to this action?
Everything seemed to be fine two years ago.
But now the prosecutor (now a deputy) Poklonskaya arranges a vile trick by going to the action with the icon of the king-rag, while telling some kind of fairy tale for the mentally mournful. And the leadership of the Immortal Regiment is silent.
An emblem is proposed, where the Soviet symbols are replaced by George the Victorious with a cross on a spear. How so? The victory in the Great Patriotic War was won not by the Orthodox army over the filthy Germans, but by the Soviet multinational and multi-confessional (and in the mass and atheistic) people. But the leadership of the "Immortal Regiment" accepts the emblem.
In the Russian Orthodox Church, the organizers of the Immortal Regiment movement were offered to allow the procession participants to honor the memory of the heroes of not only the Great Patriotic War (WWII), but also other wars. For example, the First World War and the Patriotic War of 1812. Dmitry Roshchin, head of the department for work with public organizations of the Synodal department for relations between the church, society and the media, told the Moscow city news agency about this. And the leadership of the Immortal Regiment agrees.
Initially, the "Immortal Regiment" was created by liberals as an act of oblivion. It was forbidden to use Soviet symbols, and they tried to make it not a holiday, but a day of mourning. I already wrote about it.
Thanks to the position of our fellow citizens, the action was pulled out from under the liberals and made a day of triumph for the victorious people.
But the action immediately began to crush the government. Government officials diligently direct it in the "right" direction. In anti-Soviet. Our major government officials have such a property as King Midas. But for him, everything that he did not touch turned into gold, and for government officials - into shit.
And so they reached out to the "Immortal Regiment" and diligently disfigure this action, again turning it into an action of oblivion.
I do not call not to go to this action. Comrades, when you go to it, remember that it depends on you what this action will be. It will be a procession of the descendants of Soviet victorious soldiers. The winners in the Greatest War, who broke the back of fascism and Nazism. And will the descendants remember who fought, for what and under whose command.
Or it will be a jingoistic procession with icons in honor of all the victories under the auspices of the king-rag.
All in your hands. And you have the power to wrest the action from the clutches of officials and leave it to the people.
